I have gotten quite a bit of negative feedback about my previous post on World Ventures/ DreamTrips, and I wanted to make another post just to clear the air a bit and explain my thoughts a bit better, since everyone seems to think that I'm an insufferable, google-abusing idiot.
I would also ask that if you do disagree with my opinion, that you express that in a respectful way, because so far, all of the comments I've been getting have been rather rude, and their writers have been insulting me personally. So please, if you want to voice your opinion, do so respectfully rather than lashing out because you end up looking like the coward when you anonymously attack someone on the internet.
First off, I've noticed that every single angry comment has been from someone who is a member of World Ventures. I feel like, in any situation, people on the inside fail to be able to identify and admit to problems around them, whereas someone on the outside is able to see the bigger picture and see things more objectively. I can see where people who are a part of World Ventures might have very subjective feelings about the business. People on the inside probably feel like they need to protect World Ventures, and therefore are seemingly lashing out at me for telling the story of how I was approached about it. I'm actually very interested in hearing what people OUTSIDE the company have to say about my last post and this one. I want to know if you find my comments to be out of line or baseless. Please let me know in the comments.
Secondly, Google is one of the main ways that we, as an internet-savvy society, learn information, is it not? I'm sure that you, as well as the people who called me "Mr. Google-researcher" (I'm actually female, just by the way) actually found that post and this post by looking it up on Google or a similar search engine. My information about World Ventures came from my personal experience, as well as the experiences of other people who have been approached about World Ventures. These people, like me, felt the need to tell people about what they experienced, because we felt like there was a problem. At the very least, this needs to be a wake up call to World Ventures, because they're coming off as completely non-authentic by having this model of recruiting people.
Third, my post was, in no way, saying that World Ventures was not really a travel company. Clearly, they are, and people with memberships take trips with them. The point that I was making is that they have a shady business model. If they want to come of as a legitimate company, why do they have a system that can so easily fall into the "Pyramid Scheme" category, which- like it or not- is a huge red flag to consumers? As I said in my last blog, because I'm not a member, I can neither confirm or deny their claims of saving money on trips, and I will freely admit that. However, I have read many different "DreamTrips Stories" from people who were a part of it, and found that the company did not save them money at all.
Fourth, I have found that people who want you to buy a membership in World Ventures are very sneaky, and this bothers me quite a bit. From my own experience, as well as other first-hand experiences, people have been approached by others under false pretenses and then have been pitched the whole World Ventures/ DreamTrips shebang. People have compared this to Mary Kay, Pampered Chef, etc. but there are some distinct differences. People with Mary Kay and Pampered Chef don't approach you under false pretenses. You know that you're buying a product from a person. Along the same lines, World Ventures has been very clever about not "really" making DreamTrips an actual pyramid scheme, because they don't give commission or pay their members for recruiting people. Kinda. The members' incentive is getting fees waived. So technically, they aren't being paid, they just aren't being charged. World Ventures wants people to recruit you so that you can recruit other people, who can recruit other people, and so on down the line. Mary Kay? They want to sell you a product. You buy it, you're done. No $200 dollar membership fee with an incentive to make more people buy things, you're just DONE. Can you join up and sell Mary Kay? Sure! But purchasing something from them doesn't automatically involve a membership that you're constantly paying for. That's the difference.
So there you go, a bit of an explanation for my post. I would ask that you not send me hate comments, as these are my own opinions and observances, as well as a summary of many other people's experiences that I have read. As just an interesting note, the girl who approached me actually posted on Facebook that she didn't have enough money to go on a trip and that she needed to learn to be smarter with her money. If that doesn't reinforce my point, then I don't know what does.
The following was posted as a comment at the beginning of December, but I'm putting it on the main post so it's more visible.
Hi Everyone,
As you all can see, I have stopped responding to comments, both positive and negative. I honestly just don't have the time to go through each and every comment and give feedback. To those of you who have voiced your opinions in a polite and respectful manner, thank you! I sincerely appreciate feedback, even if you disagree with me. However, if your sole intent is to be rude, to bash me, or to make me look stupid, don't waste your time typing out a hateful comment. It only serves to make you look brainwashed and desperate to save a company that you're too tightly woven into to recognize a single flaw. Honestly, I find it funny that half of the people who try to insult my intelligence can't even manage to put together a single grammatically correct sentence. This blog post is based upon my experiences, and the experiences of others. I have never claimed that anything I learned about the company could be considered "research." Those who aim to bash me have used that term, but I literally just googled it in search of other people's experiences. I have never claimed to be a business expert. I have simply stated my experience with a member, and have discussed concerns that others have had. The vast number of unhappy members/former members and the many people who have been approached in the same way as I was should ALL be signs of a failing business model, scam or no scam (although I do still stand by my "scam" belief). If you can't see that, then I fail to see how I'm the ignorant and illogical person in this situation.
Thanks Kristen. I read this and your other blog. I have a friend that recently got into World Ventures/Dreamtrips. He keeps posting pictures on Facebook with him in various places with his 'blue sign'. This is a 'pyramid scheme' and an affiliated marketing scheme. I'm just waiting for the contact from my acquaintance friend and now I'm prepared. Geez. Who would join this? Thanks for the great information.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad my blog helped!
DeleteHello MusicIsLife!(cool name by the way). I came across your blog and the debate here is very interesting. I decided to do some research on this company myself. From what I could find, it does not seem like Worldventures is a pyramid scheme or a scam. As a matter of fact, I did some detective work and I was able to obtain a password from someone that is a member. When I looked at their vacation packages they were any where from about $20 to about $1,000 cheaper than other online booking engines. I also found that there are some people out there making almost one million dollars a year with the program. I did find some negative articles on it as well. One of the things that struck me was that one of the negative articles written was written by someone who was trying to recruit people into another company like it. I have to conclude that as with most things in life, there is a negative side and a positive side to worldventures. We all know that MaryKay and Avon are legitimate companies and there are even articles out there that claim those two companies are scams. You are just sharing your opinion and that's great! Your blog is nicely designed and you seem to be an intelligent person. Keep up the good work!
DeleteThat you Kristen for your honest opinions and thoughts. I too have been approached about World Ventures and have been doing my research about the company. I even went so far as to check the BBB website and found that the company currently has a C- rating based on all the negative experiences from their members and representatives. I think it was really classy of you to not sink to the level of the people who attacked you personally for sharing your experiences. I have challenged the person who approached me about World Ventures to show me the website, signed in as a member and I want to see the so-called deals. They have yet to show me anything. I agree with your skepticism about this company. Keep posting!
ReplyDeleteI think it's great that you challenged the person to show you the deals. I think the fact that they have failed to show you makes it clear that even they know that there's a problem, much like how the girl who approached me completely stopped communicating with me when I said that I knew about her incentive to get people to join. The fact that even the people who have gotten involved see the problem entirely destroys their credibility for me.
DeleteKim B. I realize this comment was a year ago but I am just now reading this blog. I am in world ventures, only for the travel though and to not make a business out of it, and the deals are very much true. Yeah there may be some deals that are just a bit cheaper than you may be able to buy from company directly but overall I have saved thousands by traveling through world ventures. It does seen sketchy that the person that approached you with the business wouldn't show you the deals because anyone that I know in the business would gladly do it. There's not much to hide there and I'm not sure why they made it an ordeal. It's not for everyone but if you love to travel then I would definitely give it a second chance.
DeleteI just have to wonder if your experience came from a lack of proper training on the part of your acquaintance. Before I become a target for attack let me just say that I am in no way associated with World Ventures/Dreamtrips so I do not have a working knowledge of the training provided or the policies of the company. What I do know is there is such a demand for work from home positions that there are some that will jump on the bandwagon but fail to properly educate themselves and their common sense fails them. I work with a direct sales company where I see this very phenomenon on a daily basis. I believe that it is bred from a place of desperation. Many times you will see someone sign up with a company and not fully understand what all is entailed to get to those coveted top ranks. When they begin to feel like it is not working for them they begin to pull bits and pieces out of the little bit of training they have participated in without fully understanding the full application of it. From their place of desperation they forget or never see that they are adding to the stigma that is associated with working with a direct sales company.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your experience. Hopefully it will spur leaders within the World Ventures/Dreamtrips organization to evaluate their policies and training so that they do not end up in the graveyard with others like them.
I agree, that it might be a lack of training, but I know other people have been approached the same way I was, so to me, it seems like they aren't trained, as I think this is supposed to be seen more as a membership than a job.
DeleteI agree that at the very least, if World Ventures wants to be seen as a legitimate company, they need to step up and fix these problems that so many people are seeing.
Hi. I live in South Africa. A friend of my cousin's (very much and acquaintance) was recently calling and messaging me on a regular basis out of the blue asking that we meet for coffee. I have been unable to do so because I am a doctor and I am VERY busy. I also thought it odd. We have NEVER had coffee in the past so why now? He is someone who is posting pictures on a daily basis of his trips with the "blue sign". So eventually it all clicked. He was probably going to get me to buy into this Pyramid scheme! I also have no time for such things and it is extremely difficult to get leave at work. I would NEVER buy into one of these things and feel quite irritated that he would pretend to want to "catch up" and have coffee while he is actually trying to sell something to me. Never taking his calls again. Let me note that he is someone who is VERY naive.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a member of world ventures and I have nothing to do with the company but I'm afraid your initial blog lost ALL credability for me when I read one simple sentence,
ReplyDelete"...Their prices aren't really better than other sites. I can't verify this for sure, because I haven't looked into it..."
That is end of story for me I'm afraid. Your Criticism seems to stem from two sources, 1/ you don’t like the idea of people ‘recruiting’ other people into the networking business. 2/ Their products aren’t of real value.
On the first point I have to say that I honestly feel no desire to answer it for you simply because as the direct selling / network marketing industry has been established as a perfectly legitimate business model since 1947 (some argue an earlier date but let’s use that date for argument) and currently turns over hundreds of billions of dollars with thousands of companies and tens of millions of people worldwide and there is so much legislation regulating that perfectly legitimate business model to separate it from the completely illegal and disgusting practice that many refer to as Pyramid or Ponzi schemes, that the only conclusion to be gleaned from your blog is that you either can’t be bothered to research your subject or you simply don’t know how to. I have no idea or interest in whether WorldVentures is a ‘good’ network marketing company or not but the fact is that the smallest of real research will show it to be a genuine network marketing company NOT an illegal scheme and to attack the whole premise of network marketing as a scam simply shows a state of ignorance beyond imagination.
As to the second point…. You wrote…”…Their prices aren't really better than other sites. I can't verify this for sure, because I haven't looked into it...”. End of any shred of credability in your blog right there. I truly believe my 13 year old son could write a more considered critique than your blog post. Truly unbelievable uninformed drivel and you should be ashamed for attacking ANYTHING through the amount of ignorance that you clearly demonstrate. It is no less that Bigotry at its very worst.
As to your first concern, yes, dream trips has avoided being an illegal scheme by not "actually" paying their members to recruit people. HOWEVER, if members recruit enough people, they don't have to pay membership fees. That's about as close as a company can get to toeing the "illegal" line that I feel that their business model should be scrutinized carefully before even thinking about joining. If they want to be seen as a legitimate company, why are they toeing the line on illegal? That's my concern.
DeleteMy statement of "I haven't looked into it" was probably incorrect phrasing. While I have not been able to find actual numerical information about DreamTrips' pricing, (Because members seem overly hesitant to actually share that information, which is definitely a red flag for me!) I have looked into the whole "saving money" aspect further, because so many people have criticized me on this point. What I have found are many people who have been a part of it talking about how they did NOT actually save money with Dream Trips. So while I don't have any hard numerical prices, I do have several people's testimonials. And this is just my 2 cents, but I find it extremely suspicious that members of a company who claims to save so much on trips just don't want to share the prices. If you're saving that much money, don't you want to prove it to everyone?
"...yes, dream trips has avoided being an illegal scheme by not "actually" paying their members to recruit people. .."
DeleteWrong again on so many levels. Your premise is simply fictional and flawed! WorldVentures (Dream Trips is a product name not a company name) has avoided being an illegal scheme simply because the company is a genuine and perfectly legal network marketing company wholly operating within the law and therefor is NOT an illegal scheme of ANY kind period! Using your logic of telling what they have NOT done so as to avoid being an illegal scheme we could equally say that they have not murdered people, poisoned the public water supply or attempted to overthrow the government in order to stay legal. Your simplistic interpretation of the law governing this area suggests to me that your whole argument rests on purely anecdotal tales from a basic Google search rather than true academic research of ANY kind… and if you are honest you will see that to be the truth and you know it.
This is the real world and you are making accusations about a real bricks and mortar business. Your original objection seems to stem from a dislike or misunderstanding of an approach to offer you a business opportunity from an independent distributor of a product from a perfectly legitimate networking company... fair enough, if he went about it in a way that upset you then so be it, you should be angry with him and you have every right to remonstrate with him about his approach… but you then decide to take it to completely absurd extremes and claim that the whole industry is corrupt and nothing but a 'scheme' because of your initial ignorance that networking companies, by definition, sell their products through a network of independent distributors and that in network marketing one builds a legitimate and lawful business by finding and recruiting a network of people who distribute a company’s product rather than the conventional way of a distribution through shops etc. Your hasty conclusion arrived at through pure ignorance was that the whole thing must therefore be some illegal scheme. That’s the same as calling Walmart a scam because you didn't like the tone of a person on the cash register.
For goodness sake, this whole issue is mute. It is completely acceptable for you to take acceptation to the particular way that the independent distributor from WorldVentures showed you a business opportunity, that is perfectly within your right and nobody will call you out on that… but to label the whole company as borderline illegal because of a child like understanding of direct selling in general and network marketing in particular is ignorant bigotry in its worst form. There is no skirting of legal boundaries in the WorldVentures business model, it is perfectly and wholly within the law of every country in which it operates and in fact operates a similar business model to a very many other legitimate networking companies, many of which are household names and which many people don’t even realise are networking companies anyway.
As for the product value itself, well frankly that has nothing to do with this debate. Many products sold in the conventional retail marketplace could be the subject of a debate as to their quality and value and the company’s longevity and financial viability will inevitably rise or fall depending on what is perceived by the public to be the truth of it. It has to be noted however that the company has now been trading for eight years to date so there must be some credibility and customer satisfaction out there for it to survive that long but however you view the value of their product, that subject does not deserve to be on the same page as accusations of the illegality of their distribution method.
I don't believe I'm taking anything to absurd extremes, or even extremes at all. As you said, much of what I have said is based in anecdotes, and I don't see a problem with that. Many people have had problems with the company, and I feel that's important, and plays a big role in my own personal opinion about the company.
DeleteYou also said I seem to have taken an unpleasant experience with a member and blown it up into something bigger than it is. However, as you can see from other comments on my posts as well as the people whose testimonials I've spoken of, this is the way most people have been approached. In fact, I've never seen an instance where someone was approached by someone about the company where it wasn't under false pretenses.
And yes, the company is perfectly within the lines of the law. I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but the law is that you cannot pay someone to recruit members, whether it be with a regular paycheck or with a bonus for everyone they recruit. WorldVentures is practically paying their members to recruit people, and I see a problem with that.
Yes, clearly it's a legitimate business, because people take trips with it. But there are huge flaws that a potential member may not be aware of, because the members who recruit people are not upfront with that information. The point of this post, as well as the other one, was to tell people about the business as an outsider, rather than a pushy, sneaky member like what I, as well as others, experienced. Because it's quite possible that someone getting pitched a membership just wouldn't get the full story from a member.
Richard,
DeleteIf you cannot discern the issues with this company on your own, then I don't know what to tell you.
Have a hard time believing this guy has no affiliation to the company. If he can't see why this company rubs people the wrong way, he is either dishonest or delusional.
DeleteRichard,
DeleteHow much have you earned from World Ventures and please post a couple of examples of vacation trips that can't be matched or beaten by Priceline or others like it. Priceline is free to use and requires no membership or obligations other than the trip you are booking.
This Richard person seems a bit defensive.
DeleteAnybody with reasonable intellect can clearly see from a mile away that WV/Dream Trips is a BLATENT pyramid scheme.
Honestly it's not worth the conversation if people can't eyeball that.
If Richard or people of his mindset feel you are misguided, by all means, have a great Dream Trip.
Richard, I have no dog in this fight, but since you are picking apart logic and lack of academia, you might want to correct this sentence: "For goodness sake, this whole issue is mute." I do not think you meant the issue is incapable of speech. I think you meant 'moot.'
Deletedon't even know why anyone would correspond with dick. obviously, this man/lady needs to recruit people the same way he got suckered into paying the recurring fees for his dreamtrips representative diamond account monthly fees.
DeleteI have been approached similarly by these members of organisation. After doing much research I can honestly say, it is my opinion that this is a pyramid scheme. Another interesting thing is, a lot of these members are awfully vocal in online forums, they often write their own positive glowing review and attach anyone who disagrees.
ReplyDeleteMadam, there is so much fiction and so many floors in your logic to be picked apart in your post that I really don't know where to start.
ReplyDeletePerhaps I will just pick one at a time and ask you to just reply on that one point if you can manage to do that. That way we can stay focused. Don't worry, I will address all of your points in subsequent posts.
Musicislife said... "WorldVentures is practically paying their members to recruit people, and I see a problem with that."
Unlike you I have taken the time to look up the WorldVentures compensation plan... in plain English that is simply how the company pays its reps. When someone joins WorldVentures they have three options:
1/ To join as a customer
2/ To join as a rep
3/ to join as a customer and also be a rep.
There is a fee payable to join WorldVentures as a customer.
There is a separate fee payable to join WorldVentures as a rep.
If you join as a customer who also wants to be a rep you pay both fees...
OK so far?
As the 'enroller' the company will pay you a commission if you enrol a customer as this is a retail sale.. even you should be able to see that yes?
As an 'enroller' the company will NOT pay any commission at all if you enrol solely a rep. The fee to join as a rep is NON-COMMISIONABLE.
As an 'enroller' the company will pay a commission ONLY on the sale of the membership fee and NOTHING on the additional fee to become a rep if you enrol a customer who also wants to be a rep.
Now this is a model that exists across the direct selling industry.. It is the same model that exists in the insurance industry and in the real estate industry and is highly regulated by government legislation in all the countries that operate that business model.
So, please tell me... Apart from speaking and condemning out of ignorance due to not actually bothering to take the time to investigate exactly how the reps actually get paid in the real world, what EXACT part of that business model do you have a problem with that your government and the governments of most if not the whole of the civilised world find to be a perfectly acceptable business model?
As I said before, for the sake of clarity I would be ever so grateful if you would be so kind as to limit your response to this one point...we can chat about your other worries separately :)
OK, I can see we're clearly getting to the point where you're beginning to be condescending and rude in your tone. Neither of us are going to budge, and frankly, I'm tired of arguing with you. I have stated my experience and have discussed other people's experiences, and if you have a problem with that, it's just simply too bad for you. I'm stating things from my point of view, and it's entirely within my right to do so.
DeleteRather than picking apart their business plan, I think you should really focus on the customers, and take the time to go see the vast number of people who have run into problems with the way that WorldVentures runs their company. If a company has that many unhappy customers, THERE IS A PROBLEM. Regardless of whether you think their business plan is as flawed as I do.
This will be the last time I respond to you until you stop talking to me as if I'm an idiot, because my aim is to help people avoid a problematic business. When I wanted to learn about it, I found very few posts talking about it from an outsider's view, so I decided that I should post about it as well to try and help people find out more about the company, and picking apart their business plan simply isn't what I'm here to do. As you can see from other people's comments, they have been approached just as I was, and wanted to find out more information about the company, and I'm glad that I was able to help them steer clear of a company that I, and MANY others see as not being worth anyone's time.
Richard - Give it up, man. It's honestly pretty sad to see this. If I were to be honest I'd ask of you to engage in a career that would be useful to the world. Not one like this WV culture you're perpetuating. The fact that you can sit here and try to rationally act like it's not a pyramid tool makes it unacceptable. AT LEAST just say "this is a pyramid scheme, but that's okay. Join if you want." I would respect that. EVERY pyramid scheme in existence has defenses like the stuff you are saying.
DeleteThis is pretty laughable to intelligent people. But sadly it's not the intelligent people you guys prey upon.
It's disgusting, bro. Good luck.
lol ok...@MusicalsLife...where you have a point...your point is valid for every american corporation out there. How many customers hate walmart, target, sears, costco? How many employees complain and hate them too? I get your point and I'm not arguing with you, but to say, "If a company has that many unhappy customers, there is a problem!" Could be said for just about any business out there, network marketing or not. lol
DeleteSo I looked this up on a site called Ripoffreport.com
This company has 5 complaints
Mary Kay has 31 complaints
Avon has 534 complaints
Walmart has 1,818 complaints
Sears has 1,790 complaints
Verizon has 2,918 complaints
My point? All companies have unhappy customers, it's not just this one. So based off of this info...should I stop buying Mary kay products? Or going to Walmart or Sears? Logic says no, because there will be people who hate the company and not shop there and people who like the company.
I took it a step further...the BBB (I'm a curious cat, what can I say)
Has them listed at a B- rating, and they aren't BBB accredited
Verizon is BBB accredited and has no rating.
Avon is accredit and has an A+
Sears has an A rating.
For a company with a B+ rating, is actually pretty dang good. People aren't going to like everything, it is what it is. But don't use the, "well they have so many unhappy customers, so they have to be bad." theory...there are 100 times more unhappy customers out there with places like Walmart and Target and Sears, then there are with this and yet...you don't hear people saying, "Well walmart has so many unhappy customers and employees, don't buy from them, their scam and a ripoff!"
Like I said I get what you are saying, but it's just food for thought is all. And if I have to make a decision on this company on whether or not I will do this or not...I won't do it because someone says it's a scam or because "some people are unhappy with it" that's proof enough, especially when I know that there are tons more then THAT who are unhappy with the business that we have that's been for decades.
I know this is a few years late but just in case your still reading this crap. BBB has listed them as a "problem" company and is warning people of their deceitful practices.
DeleteIf I have been perceived as being condescending then I can only apologise for my obtuse articulation. Your bio tells me you are in fact a young lady at university studying amongst other things, psychology so with that in mind I will make this reply somewhat more of an academic inference in order to more closely address your scholastic status. However, please forgive my lack of references and my obvious plagiarism in copying verbatim certain word definitions; this is purely down to my haste in replying.
ReplyDeleteMadam, or should I say mademoiselle, far from being condescending I am actually being factual. When I use the word 'ignorance' in describing your approach I use it advisedly. If we look at a typical dictionary definition of the word we might find:
“…The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware…”
And
“…It is often used as an insult to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts.”…
While I would have good cause to refer you to your approach using the latter definition I am actually wholly referring to the former as I have proved conclusively that there is zero substance in your allegation of impropriety in their compensation plan with regards to payment for enrolment and I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that your ignorance is not deliberate.
Your substantiation for your further allegations rests purely on anecdotal evidence relating to the amount of alleged online complaints that you have found regarding the company, its products or its reps. I contend that your conclusion flawed is two prime ways:
1/ Your evidence is purely anecdotal. I would refer you to this definition: The expression anecdotal evidence refers to evidence from anecdotes. Because of the relatively small selective sample, there is a larger chance that it may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases. Anecdotal evidence is considered dubious support of a claim; it is accepted only in lieu of more solid evidence. This is true regardless of the veracity of individual claims.
The term is often used in contrast to scientific evidence, such as evidence-based medicine, which are types of formal accounts. Anecdotal evidence does not qualify as scientific evidence because its nature prevents it from being investigated using the scientific method. Misuse of anecdotal evidence is an informal fallacy and is sometimes referred to as the "person who" fallacy ("I know a person who..."; "I know of a case where..." etc. Compare with hasty generalization). Anecdotal evidence is not necessarily representative of a "typical" experience; in fact, human cognitive biases such as confirmation bias mean that exceptional or confirmatory anecdotes are much more likely to be remembered. Accurate determination of whether an anecdote is "typical" requires statistical evidence.
Continued……
2/ Your conclusion is reached through the human cognitive bias known as confirmation bias. Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).
ReplyDeleteA series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way. Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence.
I would contend that your personal perception of a certain amount deception in the approach of a Worldventures rep who simply wanted to offer you either an opportunity to become a member of Woldventures as a customer or perhaps to offer you the chance to develop a home based income by becoming a representative of the company yourself, has led you to justify your anger through confirmation bias led investigations which has uncovered a certain amount of negative anecdotal evidence. However due to the flawed nature of these investigative activities and evidence gathering as described above, the process has brought you to a point where you are unfairly criticising the home based business aspirations of over eighty thousand representatives of Worldventures worldwide and unfairly besmirching the good name of a perfectly respectable company.
An unbiased research of the full range of anecdotal evidence will show far more positive reviews for worldventures than negative reviews. However, as anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all in the eyes of science, as I feel sure you are aware as a psychologist, I would suggest a full retraction of your accusations forthwith. Please feel free to seek the advice and guidance of your Psychology Professor if you feel the need for verification of my debate points.
I have to agree with MusicIsLife, I came across this page because I had the exact same interaction with a friend of a friend trying to sell me on WorldVentures. I really do appreciate the information that was provided here. Though these experiences are anecdotal, it isn't difficult to find reliable information concerning this company and its faulty business model (she isn't expressing confirmation bias). I did a little research myself and quickly found their 2012 Annual Income Disclosure Statement:
Deletehttp://gs1.wpc.edgecastcdn.net/80289E/media/1/PDF/unitedstates_us/incomedisclosure_us.pdf
These statements are required by law and it is important to note which information is included as well as which information is not (a company will always include positive statistics that they expect to be recurring). I can summarize a few of the points that stood out for me.
1. 80.18% of reps did not make any income between October '11 and September '12 (note that this is income, not profit, so any expenses they incurred recruiting, paying dues, etc. are not included).
2. Of the representatives that did earn an income, 77.67% of those had a median income of $20 and an average income of $78.80. 18.60% of those had a median income of $300 and an average income of $514.43.
3. The remaining 0.742% of reps earned median incomes between $3,780 and $411,203. This is a huge gap and it isn't encouraging, because their business model results in exponential growth in their downline. Though this is what makes it profitable for those who started the business, this growth leaves less room for newcomers to make money, because the market is saturated and they will likely drop off.
4. Take into account what is often not included in these disclosures:
*Total distributors throughout the year
*Number of new distributors during the year
*Number of distributors who quit during the year
*Turnover rate
*Definition of “active” distributor
*Total number of distributors at a supervisor or leader level (i.e. have recruited other distributors)
*Total number of “active” distributors at a supervisor or leader level
Finally, one metric they fail to mention is the proportion of their services that go to non-representatives. Unlike Mary Kay, which sells a viable product to a loyal customer base, it doesn't look like their representatives are actively selling their services to customers. This is what really separates successful MLM businesses from unsuccessful ones (a good source of information for the reasoning behind this is Bill Ackman and his logic for shorting Herbalife earlier this year. Though it remains to be seen whether Herbalife has a faulty business model, the logic behind it would apply to this situation).
Again, thank you for your earlier post concerning WorldVentures. I wouldn't have signed up anyway, but it was convenient having that information on hand when I was speaking with my friend (of a friend).
Richard Williams, your first post starts with "I'm not a member of world ventures and I have nothing to do with the company".
DeleteOver the course of the next week, you've posted 2393 words on the topic with in depth knowledge of all their (talking) points.
Coincidence, I'm sure.
Richard Williams, all we hear is your attacks towards MusicIsLife on how she might be bias and etc. I'm really curious as to whether you can prove that WorldVentures/ Dreamtrips is not a scam without attacking her and through more factual figures and reports on the company.
DeleteLmaooooo. I thought he WASN'T a part of World Ventures.
DeleteJesus. You DO know you are just a TEENY bit insane, don't you, Richard? Seriously, get a real job. Get a career. I'm not condescending as much as I'm trying to honestly speak to you.
You are wasting your life with that and trying to enroll other human beings to do so as well.
Unacceptable.
I swear... that man Richard williams!!! AMEN!!! I don't know about any one else! But all I know is that I'm tired of working for people! I have worked in retail for many yrs! I have worked in warehouses, I have even drove a truck! All of that is time taken trying to provide for my family! (Yes I'm a female and a very beautiful one I may add) but I'm tired of working for bosses I never knew! Um.. don't we have a tv show called "Under cover bosses" y do they have to go undercover?! I'm pretty sure those people wouldn't know them any ways! Being in the MLM has been the best! The positive people that are around you! People teaching you how to become successful! Now people u can not be successful of you don't move! (Retail: if I no customers I had to find something to do, I just can't stand there) (driving: if I'm not driving my products to the customers, they will never recieve it)... I'm never going to knock any ones hustle. We all been a subject to something. I can't judge things I never tried! I wanna sing like beyonce, guess what I cant! I always wanted to play the piano, but I cant. But if I try my hardest to do these things and stay motivated, maybe I can! But I will never know unless I try! You always get what you put in, in anything you do in life!!! I'm pretty sure that since being here I loved every bit! Some like the negative people in here, you guys are very closed minded people and this might not be for you! That is great! But don't ever knock someone down for it! There having fun at what they do! There not listening to people that have the worst to say if you never tried it!.... oh by the way when u post anything on face book do u know who gets paid for that! Did u know that every like every post he is getting paid while sitting or going about his everyday life! Wouldn't that make him a network marketer? I haven't heard u complain about fb, but if u do the research you'll see! Netflix took blockbuster out! And I can see this company doing that to others! Scam?! we are in every day scams!
DeleteAlthough your defense of a scientific approach is noble, the anecdotal route is the one that I was aiming for, and which I think is better in this instance because I was really wanting to show people how much other people who were involved with it had trouble with the company.
ReplyDeleteYes, I know quite a bit about confirmation bias. And I do feel like in any instance like this, there is a certain amount of that. However, I definitely saw MANY more negative than positive. The negative people were all very open about their experience, but the people who gave positive reviews all focused on the things that the corporate people were doing, which is great, but doesn't focus on the customer. And all the people involved with the company refused to give any information about the pricing or how much they were saving.
What a guy, this Richard Williams to come to the aid of the poor defenseless World Ventures. Such CHARITY. In the future, why don't you try your hand at Meals on Wheels, visit a retirement facility, or donate your time and argumentative abilities to a more worthy cause. I can only surmise you work for this company or you're just a complete jackass to have spent so much time on this stupid blog. No offense MusicIsLife... I'm such a troll.
ReplyDeleteRichard: If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
ReplyDeleteIf it looks like a pyramid scam and works like a pyramid scam and has a C- rating from the BBB and boatloads of negative comments online, it's probably a pyramid scam. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's perfectly fine. This business dupes people into thinking they'll get rich quick. There is no such thing as a free BMW - you pay for it with your soul by recruiting other poor bastards who think they'll get one too. Find a real job and help bury this nonsense once and for all.
This is fun you know. People like us taking time to read things like this to find which is true or not.
ReplyDeleteThe opinion I made from everything I read and my experience:
1. Worldventures taking advantage from us by asking us to be their representative and get the money from it. (for me if this can be my passive income or if I can get a new BMW car I'll go for it. Why not? U just find 6 and let the 6 find another 6. Hell yeah about the scam. I earn money from it and if the other 6 people get another 6 they earn the money also. So???)
2. People really go for this and go for a trip. I even read a comment said that they even pay less for their vacation to Australia. (So from this we can say we can save money).
3. From all the people who said this is a scam. (They dont even go for a trip or they dont even a rep so I dont know why they said this business is a scam? Based on another experience who dont even go and who dont even a rep? Or based on people who go for it and get 6 and get a BMW and get the money?)
4. They said the member wont show the price of the trips? Send me your email I'll capture it for you and send u the details of the trips. You only pay $379 for all your accommodation in Bali, Indonesia and you have a English tour guide as well, breakfast and including tour you know. Btw if you can find the best trip which is better or exactly the same with dreamtrips life they can over you a free trip. They have which they call a Rovia Price Pledge (google it so you know about it)
5. Dude why work hard when you can find a easy way to do not work hard and enjoy the vacation. Maybe I am stupid by sign up for this and get the free membership already and extra $200 cash *they transfer straight to my account and a $200 free Travel. why not? Why not try this. If the company get rich because of us? so what? U get the membership. If they get your money and don't pay the commission that's a scam. But if you help them to become rich and make the money from it WHY NOT? What worldventures over is a great passive income which may lead you to early retirement. =D im still working now. I'm joining this for 1 month and get free membership + cash back for my 1st installment membership worth $360 cash + extra $250 *because I can get 6 within a month* + $200 for 1 cycle I made. So? hahah Im so up for this. Working 1 month and get $210 profit income. If this go bigger its good if not so what? I get my money back already which is that's matter.
I really dont care if this is a scam or not but at least I dont have to pay another payment and can go for a dream trip.
once more If recruiting people is the easiest way to get a new BMW, I'm so up for it.
Dont you? but haters gonna hate and lovers gonna love. This is my opinion but in my other opinion your blog is good. And richard's opinion is awesome thats makes sense.
Please forgive my English. English is not my first language. Hope you can understand what I mean.
God Bless You all.
-Jil-
There's plenty of easier ways to get a BMW. There's plenty of more effective ways to make extra money. There is plenty of waaay better ways to retire earlier...like Roth IRA's.
Deletewell said Jil!! i have also done much research into this company and have many friends in the business who can confirm all of the above.
DeleteTo this fellow anonymous replier above, if u dont want to do it then DONT DO IT! no one is forcing anyone to join anything. but i know FOR A FACT that Roth IRAs cannot make u more than what my friends are making in this company with their residual income!
Wow, Richard Williams is a piece of work!! If your blog posts didn't do it, then his completely ridiculous comments solidified in my mind that this is a scam. My husband's stepsister (who I don't know that well) just sent me a Facebook video to watch about Dreamtrips. My common sense told me as I'm watching that it looks like a pyramid scheme, but then I decided to research and I found your posts and the Nate Wienert post. Thank you for bringing awareness to this, and people like "Richard Williams" should know that his aggressive and condescending comments only make people continue running the other way from this crap. Kudos MusicIsLife!
ReplyDeleteRichard, I do not believe you are unaffiliated with this company. If you aren't, how did you stumble on this blog in the first place. If you aren't why are you fighting so strong on it's behalf. Your efforts are just more shady deception from a company that comes off as being shady on the surface. I to just got approached from friends about this. They are real estate agents and I hope this scheme doesn't hurt their credibility before they realize it's pure BS.
ReplyDeletei also stumbled upon this blog via a friend who was prospected (but did not join) world venture. richard makes perfect sense to me, as someone who has also studied the network marketing industry. perhaps he is fighting so hard bc he is part of another mlm company? or perhaps bc he is tired of musicforlife claiming falsities. i do not know why. anyone who watches the prospecting video will clearly see that what musicforlife claims is completely false LOL quite laughable
Delete(oh and if u reply but dont hear from me for a while/ever, it's not bc you "proved ur point" but more than i am bad at checking back on blogs and may not remember to come troll)
BTW, Music didn't provide much in the way of detailed research but her opinion about her experience was very valid. Nobody likes pyramid ambushes.
ReplyDeleteAnonymousAugust 20, 2013 at 2:27 AM brought all the detailed research and the numbers don't lie. Like most of these schemes, the all of the lettuce is at the top....hence...scam for everyone else.
Thanks for doing the legwork on this one, Music is Life. Hilarious to watch the company's trolls argue the unarguable :) . I have noticed a friend posting blue signs so will now be prepared...
ReplyDeleteAccording to WorldVentures official documents, “73.7 percent of reps fail to earn a commission and only .1 percent earn a yearly income above the poverty level. The average rep earns $325 in a year. That doesn’t account for the price of joining or the cost of training events.” According to this study, 99% of WorldVentures associates actually LOSE money.
ReplyDeleteSo funny some of the comments. I had a Facebook friend ask me for coffee the other day. He asked me personal stuff for about ten minutes then asked me if I wanted to see something he was really "serious about." I said ok. He whipped out his tablet and pulled up a 7 or 8 minute video on the dream travel or vacation or whatever. I knew immediately I was out. I let him finish his whole spiel simply because I did not want to hurt his feelings. He has sent me texts and emails asking me to bring my wife to a travel party. It feels like a cult.
ReplyDeleteThank you MusicIsLife
ReplyDeleteGood post girly! I appreciate it. I was also approached by someone I rarely talk to and she also pushed for an in person conversation. I think what sold the idea of shadiness to me was that there are soo many other folks on here that have encountered a VERY similar situation.
ReplyDeleteI'm a junior at a university I. Texas and I was approached by one of my freshmen that I kind of mentored over the summer for his orientation. I haveng really talked to him in a couple months but I'm always happy to help with anything so when he texted me to ask me to meet up with him I was excited. When I met up with him later on campus he was with another person. Jonathan, my freshman, wouldn't really look at me or talk to me the whole time. Just let the other guy say everything. The other guy, Michael, asked get to know you stuff and then randomly pulled out that blue sign, and asked if I wanted to see a video explaining it. Alarms were going off in my head but I didn't want to offend Jonathan so I watched and then when it was over I said "I know what this is and I'm not interested" Michael would say "you're not interested in the travel or business side?" Neither. I was so furious that id been tricked into coming there that I got up and left. Such a scam and an hour of my life wasted. People who buy into that are serious idiots and I pity them for getting sucked in.
ReplyDeleteI was approached by a friend - we are not close, but I do like her a lot. She wanted me to come along to a meeting, but it just didn't sound right, so I came up with some excuses. She sent me some videos and said it was best to come to the meeting to have a better understanding about the whole thing. Again, I didn't make time for it.
ReplyDeleteLast year, I was approached by another friend. He's an actor/producer in my country and it was quite a shock to me when he asked if I was available for coffee. Long story short, we met and he told me that he wasn't making much money in the film industry, but he found a new way to make money - lots of it. He switched on his laptop and as he showed me the video, I told him that I knew about it. He asked for the name of the person and when I told him, he said he knows her and that it was best that I am "recruited" under her, as she approached me first.
He showed some deals, but said I still had to pay for the flights (which is provided by the company associated with Dream Trips or WV), which cost a lot more than what my travel agent can get me! While the accommodation is cheap or seems like it is affordable, the flight tickets are too much for me.
Also, some friends of mine have been bitten by the Blue Banner Project bug and they are posting it on Facebook. Some even bring the banner along (it seems like it) and pose in front of local buildings or other states in my country with the banner! Oh and they are also recruiting local actors/actresses. I saw one photo with Katy Perry holding the Blue Banner - I guess she was told to hold it to make it look "genuine".
I just got roped into one of these recruiting sessions under the guise of meeting friends for drinks. If you know I won't come if you tell me why you are actually inviting me out, what does that say about this company's business practices? They do, after all, "show" their reps how to sell memberships. Just say no people!
ReplyDeleteI'm facing this problem too. A few days ago.
ReplyDeleteLuckily I have read your blog here and get the information on google.
Thanks for sharing :) I wont fall in this "marketing scheme"
I commented on your earlier post about WV, but will repeat it here that the recruitment methods of WV members are dishonest and unethical. Prime example is the proliferation of ads, on craigslist and elsewhere, touting a "job" in travel and marketing. It's not a job if You have to pay the company! You're not actually "earning income" you're only earning discounts on money that you're spending.
ReplyDeletePeople need to be aware of this kind of thing. Thank you for writing about it.
As P.T. Barnum once said, "there's a sucker born every minute". If it's too good to be true then it probably is.
ReplyDeleteMusicIsLife,
ReplyDeleteMy name is Jesse Crook, and i have been an Independent Rep with World Ventures for 18 months. I find it interesting when reading blogs about our company they are always one extreme or the other. Either people who have had a "bad experience" and are expressing their concerns, or someone who "is in love" with our company and posts a blog with nothing but good things to say. I myself, just like you was approached by someone who i hadn't talked to in years who wanted to share this "amazing business opportunity", "cheap vacations", "get rich" plan to me. He contacted me for months and i'd typically hang up the phone on him or ignore his calls because i just knew "he was wanting me to get involved in a pyramid scheme". After months of ignoring him i got to the point where i was so insanely out of my mind frustrated with him calling that i decided i would meet with him purely for the purpose of debunking his "so called travel club". Well when i met with him he was smart, he had a Chiropractor there who was someone from his upline to help explain the information because he wasn't really competent enough to do it him self. I had worked in the auto industry for many years and knew instantly his purpose in coming was to be the "closer". He began by telling me his story and how this company had changed his life (all of which i expected). This made me even more skeptical than i was from the beginning but i reluctantly proceeded to watch the video that gave all the information. My attitude went from having my arms crossed and completed closed minded to slightly open minded to wow i wonder it this could really work? Now the presentation was over and of course i knew what was coming.... "would you like to become a member, a rep, or both?" i was asked by the Chiropractor. I quickly said "neither". Now in the back of my mind this entire time i was thinking "this might really work", "what if this does work", "i wonder how much i could save on vacations" but i was a professionally trained sales machine and wasn't about to let them know that. Long story short, after many hours of questions and getting lots more "credible" information i made the decision to become a member and rep. I'll be honest with you, at this point i still didn't believe in the company, i still thought it was a pyramid scheme, and i wasn't sure if it was legal or not myself. When i got home my wife asked me what the meeting was about and i told her "well i'm not really sure completely, but its a travel club and we might be able to make a little extra money by selling memberships to others", she rolled her eyes and thought i was a little crazy (as did i myself). For the first two weeks i did nothing but some "hard fact research" learning about what makes a company a legitimate network marketing company (Am-Way, MaryKay, Herbalife, Prepaid Legal, Avon etc) and what makes a illegal scam or pyramid scheme (FHTM, Hung Hom firm, Saradha Group, MNC). What i found was any company which sells a legitimate product and does not allow its reps to make income by "recruiting" other reps falls into the category of a "legitimate network marketing company". WorldVentures was nominated by Ernst and Young for the "entrepreneur of the year award" in 2010, has earned multiple Magellan travel awards, and among other things was rated "#1 online booking engine for 2012" by the World Travel Awards. I know you'd have to look into these things for yourself in order to believe me as you don't have any reason to assume what i'm saying is correct.
Continued:
ReplyDeleteI want to agree with you that the way your friend used to attempt to recruit you is definitely frowned upon and comes from either lack of training or maybe just their own lack of respect im not sure which. The way i was attempted to be recruited was also extremely rude and unnecessary, however that doesn't mean every rep in the company operates this way. When i talk to people about our company i simply ask them in a straight forward manner "do you like to travel" or "would you like to make some extra money working part-time from home". I try to conduct my business as honestly as possible but unfortunately that doesnt mean everyone will do the same. Every form of business and or franchise, is going to have good and bad people no matter what.
On multiple occasions throughout this blog you've mentioned that no one is willing to share prices or savings with you, or when you ask them to "prove it" they don't respond. I'd like to offer you an opportunity to take a look on the inside and be able to discern hard facts for yourself. You can look me up of facebook or send an email to me at my personal email which is ebaymadesimple@msn.com. I will privately give you access to view these "so called savings" for yourself and possibly help you in developing an educated opinion on our company. The same offer goes for anyone else reading this blog that would like to truly learn more about our company. I will not attempt to defend my company by bashing your or name calling like some of these others have as i believe that is just childish and wrong, but i would like you to take an honest look at what we are offering and see for yourself that we provide value to the marketplace.
Lastly, i am a Director in the company and will tell you first hand my family and i have booked 17 trips through our company and by comparing to the next best price have saved roughly $8,950 total. Please contact me personally so we can work together to get you all the correct and true information.
God Bless,
Jesse Crook
Very well put Jesse!
DeleteTHIS IS SUCH A SCAM!!! It is frustrating when people that are affiliated with the company try to say that they are not. Of course they are going to defend the company because they are trying to sell you something. You state that this "Memberships" trips are cheaper than other sites but what about the initiation fee and the fact that you have to pay $60 a month until you can get a certain amount of people under you. I know that a certain amount of your money goes in to your "vacation fund" but the higher ups are making money somewhere. How long did you pay that $60 a month for? Is it worth it to abuse your family and friends and ruin your reputation to get people under you in a desperate attempt at $60 a month saved? Did anyone ever take into account these factors? I would also like to say that I am appalled by the rude comments and accusations made against musicislife. Being immature does not change the fact that some of you have been roped into a scam and are now very bitter about it!
ReplyDeleteKristen,
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to express my admiration for you taking your time to read and respond to those ridiculous claims by that poor guy, let alone having the patience to stay polite.
Of course THANK YOU for posting about your experience, and saving a few naive souls from this SCAM.
Happy Hanukkah!
I am too a Member of DreamTrips Life and a Rep for World Ventures. I first got involved in 2009, but didn't do anything til 2013. Mostly because I was busy and didn't take the time to really see how it could change my life. It wasn't until I went on a cruise and a company event that got me thinking: Wow, this can really work! Jesse Crook said it very well. I do not know of this person in any way either. I am actually a hard working RN, mother of 3 (2 whom are Autistic) and still manage to share this idea with others. I too, do not try to trick people. It is obvious, people like to travel, save money, and have fun. Some people like to even make money. So why not share this with them? It doesn't matter to me either way if they love it, or plain not interested. I am sorry if you felt uncomfortable when someone showed it to you. I do have to admit, I did some evidence based research before re-signing up. And not the Google search kind of research. I mean, I can go on Google and find bad things about McDonalds, or Walmart or the Salvation Army. Doesn't mean I still don't eat, shop or support them either. And I seen someone commented about the BBB. Check out ABC news and the investigation they did with the BBB. It is scam in itself, giving FAKE Companies and Terroist groups A+ ratings because they opted to make a contribution to the company and other well to do companies poor scores because they did not pay off the BBB.
ReplyDeleteAll in all, if not everyone is going to like every company out there. Corporate America is based of a pyramid if you look at it the right way, all the people on bottom do most the work and get paid the least, and there is only one guy at the top. MLM companies are thriving allowing anyone the opportunity to reach the top based off their own hard work.
Omg... well said!!
DeleteHi Everyone,
ReplyDeleteAs you all can see, I have stopped responding to comments, both positive and negative. I honestly just don't have the time to go through each and every comment and give feedback. To those of you who have voiced your opinions in a polite and respectful manner, thank you! I sincerely appreciate feedback, even if you disagree with me. However, if your sole intent is to be rude, to bash me, or to make me look stupid, don't waste your time typing out a hateful comment. It only serves to make you look brainwashed and desperate to save a company that you're too tightly woven into to recognize a single flaw. Honestly, I find it funny that half of the people who try to insult my intelligence can't even manage to put together a single grammatically correct sentence. This blog post is based upon my experiences, and the experiences of others. I have never claimed that anything I learned about the company could be considered "research." Those who aim to bash me have used that term, but I literally just googled it in search of other people's experiences. I have never claimed to be a business expert. I have simply stated my experience with a member, and have discussed concerns that others have had. The vast number of unhappy members/former members and the many people who have been approached in the same way as I was should ALL be signs of a failing business model, scam or no scam (although I do still stand by my "scam" belief). If you can't see that, then I fail to see how I'm the ignorant and illogical person in this situation.
Hey Everyone,
ReplyDeleteThis blog was so much longer in comments than it was in content lol. Now while I'm not a member of Worldventures, I am involved in the Network Marketing industry. This comment doesn't necessarily warrant a response. I strictly wanted to voice my opinion as a network marketing professional.
A legitimate business will have their compensation plan available online to be viewed, so while I did google Worldventures - I also googled Worldventures Compensation plan and I did find it available online. What it said in it's entirety is neither here nor there but the thing I did find is that you will not be paid strictly for recruiting more representatives into the company (that would have been a real unlawful red flag!)
Also, the term pyramid scheme, by definition does not provide a product or service but is usually referred to as a business model where the people at the top of the pyramid shape make the most money. This is not true for Worldventures (source, compensation plan 2013) nor the MLM that I am involved in. There is a binary system (two sides) that is designed to allow each representative equal opportunity to earn as much income as possible without putting a larger income in their sponsors pocket. This system exists in most MLMs created within the past 10-15 years. This my friends, is the reason I joined network marketing.
The difference between a network marketer and a sales person isn't much - the main difference is that as a network marketer you can continue to get paid regardless of additional sales made (earning a passive income). But like a sales person, you are required to sell a product or service initially (not recruit representatives) in order to obtain an income.
While I do not agree with the way you were approached, I do think that you should have at least given your acquaintance the courtesy of listening to their pitch, even if it were just to provide feedback as to what they should work on. As network marketers, once we hear that you are not interested, the pitch is meant to cease - which I would imagine is why you did not hear back from them (much better than them being pushy and attempting to keep selling you, wouldn't you agree?). They do need to work on their approach but one thing I think that you should consider is viewing a Worldventures presentation (google worldventures presentation). I watched one given by Matt Morris (that name probably means nothing to you but I read his book a little while back so his name rang a bell and that is why I chose to watch his presentation).
My reasoning for suggesting that you watch the presentation isn't for you to go join worldventures (it may not be for you), but to understand what their members see in the product. When debating, it's good to understand both sides rather than to do our own research and think that it will give us all of the answers (there were trip examples included on that presentation - you once mentioned that you were looking for those)
Side Note - People often degrade network marketing but it takes a certain mind to understand it, not everyone will. Just as not everyone will like a place where they will never make more money than their boss or CEO (that income is only guaranteed until we no longer have that position). This criticism may seem absurd to most, that's alright. Criticism of network marketing baffles me everyday.
I do wish you the best in your future blogging!
I find it surprising that you've had any success in marketing.
DeleteIt is not courtesy for the author to listen to a pitch that she was duped in to listening to in the first place. If the other party had any intention of trying to sell anything, they should have been up front. When people lie to gain what they want all courtesy to give them continued grace is out the window. Furthermore, your Facebook friends shouldn't be seen as a waiting faceless group of recruits to be drawn from. People who approach other this way are abusing the bond they ever had with the person to make a quick buck. It's despicable.
Good luck with your "legitimate business". That's what you call people call it, right?
Great post! The fact that you means someone is reading and liking it! Congrats!That’s great advice.
ReplyDeleteLove to Travel?Join our exclusive worldventures
I totally get what you are saying and how you feel. I used to be with Mary Kay...but it didn't work out. I used to do Discovery Toys...but it didn't work out. I know someone in AdvoCare (I do use the products as a customer) and she does amazing for herself. All those times, it didn't work and I didn't make money, wasn't because it was a scam, it was because I wasn't putting the work into it and I know it. I didn't believe in the product, it wasn't products that I was using, so I had no real desire to sell them, hence the reason it didn't work for me. That doesn't make the company a scam.
ReplyDeleteBut here's the thing...with those products, you can either be a paying customer, buying products that may or may not go bad before you can use them all AND the amount of money you have to drop on those products to maintain product use. Or you can sign up as a rep for those companies and pay for the sign up fee and then buy product, which you may or may not sell. Being in those companies I've learned that it's important to provide cash and carry, so either way you are putting money into your business. Also look at how many make up or weight loss companies there are out there, trying to get your business, running competition against each other, not to mention all the reps within the companies you have to go against. Either way you can choose...
A. be a customer and spend tons of money for product every month, that may or not may not go bad.
B. be a rep and spend money signing up and on product so that you can increase your chances of selling.
A true pyramid scheme is what we deal with every day...the CEO of a company makes tons of money, while the rest of us work our butts off to bring home squat. We work on his time and make him money and in the end we make squat. Where as this company and others like it, everyone has a chance to make money, depending on how hard you are willing to work for it.
But like any network marketing company, you have to work for it. Nothing is free in life, you have to work hard in everything you do. A person's success depends on how much and how hard they are willing to work for it. I've seen people sign up for things like Mary Kay and Avon and AdvoCare, they barely worked the business or not at all and then complain because they weren't making money. Well, I always say...you can ask God for a job all you like, but unless you are willing to get off your butt and go out and look for it, then don't expect him to help you. Same thing here...you can't complain about something if you aren't willing to put the time in.
One more thing from previous post...
ReplyDeleteThis is my experience with MLM companies, I've also learned you can't believe everything you read on the net, especially Google. There are many companies out there, Sprint, Walmart, Target, Wells Fargo, etc that have really bad reports, but we don't hear about it because "it's a legit company", then the minute that someone with network marketing comes along it's "circle the wagons and get ready" type of mind set. But if you look harder at things, read more up on what you are putting down, don't believe every bad report out there as the sacred word on network marketing, then you might see that it's not so bad.
As for your experience...I compare that with any other job. If you want to make an informed decision, talk to the people working it, if someone is new to the company, then talk to someone who has been in it for a while. I would do that with any company, whether it's Network Marketing, like this, or a job at Walmart. The employees are the best source for telling you if its worth it or not. Spend some time around them, get to know them, see what they are doing first hand, experience the atmosphere they work in. Don't just read up on companies online and make a decision that way.
You know how many times my hubby read reviews for companies he was applying for, only to find out the company treated their employees like garbage and none of their employees were happy?
You can get good things and bad things off the internet, you are proof of that. But I wouldn't recommend anyone read your blog and take it for the holy grail, because your experience doesn't speak for everyone else, neither does your view. I wouldn't tell people not to do Mary Kay because of how I was treated in the company or because of how I didn't make any money at it, because fact is...it was my personal experience and it doesn't speak or represent everyone in the company or the company as a whole. FYI I still like using Mary Kay products, but I will never sell for them again because of my experience and because I don't believe in the products enough to sell them!
Good luck in whatever you do with your life though!
There's a girl on my Facebook that does Dream Trips and she seems to make money. But that's how MLMs work. The people who get in early make money and they get perks for the more people they have below them. (In this case, perks being no membership fees - though honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they get better rates for the more levels of people they bring in under them). But eventually, people catch on, the internet gets all a titter and many people are stuck not being able to get enough recruits.
ReplyDeleteShe's subtly approached me several times, always vague, trying to get me to come to events. And it's always vague words like "I've got a 6 figure earner coming in". But never about how or what they're earning.
I never show up, and never give any indication that I have any intention of showing up and she's let me alone. But I can't stand to see her making her kid hold up that stupid blue sign all over Facebook. It just seems wrong.
Related: several years ago (in the rush of friending people I went to school with after I'd been out of school a couple of years), I get a strange phone call. It's some woman I've never met trying to pitch me into buying something or join a MLM scheme. Finally, she's like "Your friend _____ gave me your number and said you'd be interested." I was interested. I was very interested in why a girl I hadn't spoken to since 9th grade was giving out my number. Turns out, I had her on Facebook, and I keep my phone number visible to my Facebook friends. She'd went and found all of her acquaintances with a visible number and gave them to someone to fill her quota. I called her out on it on Facebook. She defriended me and I never got anymore calls.
Sketchy. Sketchy.
I won't claim to understand the difference between MLM and network marketing (network marketing really just seems like a way to con strangers on social networking into the pyramid rather than old schoolmates). But I'm wary of network marketing because there seems to be no product. How can you have a company and no goods coming out of it? Are they really just trading blurbs and branding for money? Probably not. If you can't easily see how the company works, don't trust it.
Hey not here to bash anyone on/or there belief about this, but don't people know what a pyramid scam really is? It's illegal! And it's with no service or product! This dream trip has unbelievable service and product! Certain people are just not open to really check it out! Every one here heard of Oprah Winfrey, right? Well i doubt she'll put us in her magazine if she thought the company wasn't real! She would be looked at a different way! And not only that, they have been in cnbc news, and also on abc news. There doing things others thought of! & I can say there legit! Thanks
ReplyDeleteI want to share my experience also. Few weeks ago a girl had sent me message on my meetup account and invited me to have a chit chat that she likes to share traveling experiences etc. When i met her she start telling me about DreamTrip packages and how much she has earn etc. I told her i am already very busy and i dont want any part time money. After that she start describing daily on watsapp even i said i am not free for it then she asked me to ask your friends to meet me and join this. I told her this MLM system is not worth actually why should i pay $400 for membership after that every month $60 and what i will get if my friends will join you and why they should join you if i am not satisfied with this system. She had no reply but still want me to join this system. As a traveler i personally feel i don't need to join these kind of system, if i want to travel i will just book and travel. No need to be greedy to save some money like this which will cheat other people.
ReplyDeleteI was a design/marketing major @ ASU. Marketing is EVERYWHERE. We don't even notice it anymore, we're so used to it. MLM is NETWORK Marketing. Social Programming says "Pyramid Scheme"...but that's NOT what a pyramid scheme IS. If anything...A REAL MLM is a reverse pyramid. You can ONLY succeed by helping others to succeed...one of the reasons so many fail...they think it's a "majic pill" and don't know what it takes to make it work. It's about developing rapport, TALKING to people, getting to know them...finding out what it is they WANT and, if you know a product that could benefit them in some way...offering a solution. It's NOT about cheating people...it's actually a positive culture that focuses upon HELPING people & lifting each other up!
ReplyDeleteIRL...the sales teams that are commission-based in common fields that you KNOW & trust...they teach cheating people. THEY teach that MONEY is everything & talking ppl into things whether they want it or not, tricking & lying if need be. That's the real irony of it.
The people that you're talking to...they're REAL people. They dared to dream. Dared to hope. Dared to take a chance...and THAT takes courage. Many are looking for a way to give their kids a better life...and the thing is...it IS possible. Without developing the right mindset, skills & knowledge...probably not probable.
When too many people tell them that they are stupid for dreaming...that dream dies. They are probably new & don't know what they're doing yet...especially if they didn't know the answers to the questions that you were trying to ask them. They are doing what they think they are TOLD to do...which works for SOME. The people that succeed...they failed A LOT before they figured it out...most people don't have the determination to endure criticism & failure.
EVERYONE has failed at something before they figured it out...that's life, that's growth. If you REALLY want to do something good for someone...instead of humiliating and disheartening them...remember that they are REAL PEOPLE. If you don't like HOW they're doing it, which is the common factor in most of the stories...tell them to go to a site called MLSP. It's a learning platform for what they're trying to do. They'll learn A LOT just from the free training webinars offered.
I'm not selling anything...I receive no incentive or commission for offering this information. I just believe in helping people.
Well said!!
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